Comments for UNEMPLOYEDJD.COM http://unemployedjd.com Supporting Law School Transparency & Career Counseling Reform Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:51:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 Comment on Your Stories: D.H., Class of 1990 (Insight Into the Future) by szoszolo http://unemployedjd.com/2010/08/19/your-stories-d-h-class-of-1990-insight-into-the-future/comment-page-1/#comment-220 szoszolo Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:51:13 +0000 http://unemployedjd.com/?p=425#comment-220 I have a lot of sympathy for D.H. I graduated at age 34 into the recession of 1991, which as you may have read was the worst year for hiring of law grads up to now. I had a rocky start, too, and at one point I took a long break from practicing, but now I'm doing okay (though the self-employment tax *is* onerous). That said, it's always been incumbent on prospective students to do some research into the likelihood of getting a job in the field they're interested in. I don't think it would have taken more than a couple of informational interviews with PDs (or DAs) to find out that a single mother with a young child would be turned down at almost any job that was mostly motion and trial work. Ditto informational interviews at firms of any size that expect associates to work 70-80-hour weeks - a single parent simply can't do it. That's not to say that many law schools weren't presenting a misleadingly rosy picture of employment prospects even back in the early 90s - they were. And that was when the idea that "educational debt is good debt" went unquestioned. But if you're going to law school to practice a particular type of law, you still need to find out what your chances of employment in that field are. If they're poor because you're non-trad or have some other "handicap"*, then you have to figure out what else you might like to do with a law degree and then find out what your chances are in that field. *I once had a conversation with a doorman at my office building. This was in the mid-90s, and he was, IIRC, Cambodian. He told me he was studying for the LSAT because he wanted to become a lawyer and represent people in his community. I told him that was admirable, but the most important thing to do first was improve his language skills because if his written English wasn't a lot better than his spoken English, he wouldn't be able to pass the bar (in a state with a 50-55% pass rate), and it would all be for naught. I have a lot of sympathy for D.H. I graduated at age 34 into the recession of 1991, which as you may have read was the worst year for hiring of law grads up to now. I had a rocky start, too, and at one point I took a long break from practicing, but now I’m doing okay (though the self-employment tax *is* onerous).

That said, it’s always been incumbent on prospective students to do some research into the likelihood of getting a job in the field they’re interested in. I don’t think it would have taken more than a couple of informational interviews with PDs (or DAs) to find out that a single mother with a young child would be turned down at almost any job that was mostly motion and trial work. Ditto informational interviews at firms of any size that expect associates to work 70-80-hour weeks – a single parent simply can’t do it.

That’s not to say that many law schools weren’t presenting a misleadingly rosy picture of employment prospects even back in the early 90s – they were. And that was when the idea that “educational debt is good debt” went unquestioned.

But if you’re going to law school to practice a particular type of law, you still need to find out what your chances of employment in that field are. If they’re poor because you’re non-trad or have some other “handicap”*, then you have to figure out what else you might like to do with a law degree and then find out what your chances are in that field.

*I once had a conversation with a doorman at my office building. This was in the mid-90s, and he was, IIRC, Cambodian. He told me he was studying for the LSAT because he wanted to become a lawyer and represent people in his community. I told him that was admirable, but the most important thing to do first was improve his language skills because if his written English wasn’t a lot better than his spoken English, he wouldn’t be able to pass the bar (in a state with a 50-55% pass rate), and it would all be for naught.

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Comment on Your Stories: D.H., Class of 1990 (Insight Into the Future) by dupednontraditional http://unemployedjd.com/2010/08/19/your-stories-d-h-class-of-1990-insight-into-the-future/comment-page-1/#comment-217 dupednontraditional Thu, 19 Aug 2010 18:06:06 +0000 http://unemployedjd.com/?p=425#comment-217 Ditto. Single mothers are hit especially hard by this, becuase of latent gender bias as described above. How can you devote 160 hours a week to your job with dependents in tow, and to a certain extent, "they" are right - you can't. The business model is predicated on taking 24 year olds with no responsibilities and running them through the wringer. Stories like this really piss me off. It's bad enough that they take the aforementioned 24 year olds and run them through the grist mill, but when you damage the potential of a productive adult as well as future generations to boot, then somebody is too addicted to money. By definition, it's not the non-trad, because they don't have any. Ditto. Single mothers are hit especially hard by this, becuase of latent gender bias as described above. How can you devote 160 hours a week to your job with dependents in tow, and to a certain extent, “they” are right – you can’t. The business model is predicated on taking 24 year olds with no responsibilities and running them through the wringer.

Stories like this really piss me off. It’s bad enough that they take the aforementioned 24 year olds and run them through the grist mill, but when you damage the potential of a productive adult as well as future generations to boot, then somebody is too addicted to money.

By definition, it’s not the non-trad, because they don’t have any.

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Comment on Your Stories: D.H., Class of 1990 (Insight Into the Future) by George Recco http://unemployedjd.com/2010/08/19/your-stories-d-h-class-of-1990-insight-into-the-future/comment-page-1/#comment-215 George Recco Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:01:27 +0000 http://unemployedjd.com/?p=425#comment-215 Ah, yes, The Non-Trad, the biggest law school scam of all. It's where a law school encourages a 30-plus-year-old to go deep into debt, i.e., a non-traditional applicant, assuring him/her that there will be plenty of jobs out there for him/her. What the school fails to, forgets to mention is that the overwhelming majority of law firms, both big and small, would much rather hire a young new associate over an "old" new associate. Law firms don't just want smart and competent. They want obedient, and they rightly or wrongly fear that a 37-year-old 1st-year associate won't like taking orders from a 30-year-old 5th-year associate. When, in reality, all a 37-year-old wants is to make enough to keep food on her daughter's table and a roof over her head, all while keeping Sallie Mae at bay. Ah, yes, The Non-Trad, the biggest law school scam of all. It’s where a law school encourages a 30-plus-year-old to go deep into debt, i.e., a non-traditional applicant, assuring him/her that there will be plenty of jobs out there for him/her. What the school fails to, forgets to mention is that the overwhelming majority of law firms, both big and small, would much rather hire a young new associate over an “old” new associate.

Law firms don’t just want smart and competent. They want obedient, and they rightly or wrongly fear that a 37-year-old 1st-year associate won’t like taking orders from a 30-year-old 5th-year associate. When, in reality, all a 37-year-old wants is to make enough to keep food on her daughter’s table and a roof over her head, all while keeping Sallie Mae at bay.

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Comment on MSNBC Article Highlights Ethan Haines’ Hunger Strike by Michael http://unemployedjd.com/2010/08/17/msnbc-article-highlights-ethan-haines-hunger-strike/comment-page-1/#comment-207 Michael Thu, 19 Aug 2010 01:59:04 +0000 http://unemployedjd.com/?p=417#comment-207 "If you were smart enough to get into law school in the first place, you should think outside the box to get a job." You're clearly very confused. This hunger strike has less to do with Ethan and his own job search than it does with the approximately 200 ABA-accredited law schools taking in thousands upon thousands of new students each year, asking them to pay exhorbitant tuition rates in exchange for fraudulent promises of high paying jobs upon graduation, and then releasing them to an oversaturated field where most won't actually find legal work, where their law degrees will actually be an obstacle to finding non-legal work, and where they are left to fend for themselves as they struggle to pay off their mortgage-sized, non-dischargeable student loans. (Yet meanwhile the ABA is now considering acccrediting foreign law schools??). Yes, more people could be thinking outside the box when it comes to legal employment. I agree. But that doesn't change any of this sad reality. Good for Ethan for bringing more attention to the widespread scam run by law schools. I wish someone had done something like this right before I dished out more than $100K to attend law school (a top 25 school, mind you) for a degree that no employer cares about. “If you were smart enough to get into law school in the first place, you should think outside the box to get a job.”

You’re clearly very confused. This hunger strike has less to do with Ethan and his own job search than it does with the approximately 200 ABA-accredited law schools taking in thousands upon thousands of new students each year, asking them to pay exhorbitant tuition rates in exchange for fraudulent promises of high paying jobs upon graduation, and then releasing them to an oversaturated field where most won’t actually find legal work, where their law degrees will actually be an obstacle to finding non-legal work, and where they are left to fend for themselves as they struggle to pay off their mortgage-sized, non-dischargeable student loans. (Yet meanwhile the ABA is now considering acccrediting foreign law schools??).

Yes, more people could be thinking outside the box when it comes to legal employment. I agree. But that doesn’t change any of this sad reality. Good for Ethan for bringing more attention to the widespread scam run by law schools. I wish someone had done something like this right before I dished out more than $100K to attend law school (a top 25 school, mind you) for a degree that no employer cares about.

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Comment on MSNBC Article Highlights Ethan Haines’ Hunger Strike by John A Silvi http://unemployedjd.com/2010/08/17/msnbc-article-highlights-ethan-haines-hunger-strike/comment-page-1/#comment-206 John A Silvi Wed, 18 Aug 2010 23:20:31 +0000 http://unemployedjd.com/?p=417#comment-206 In answer to your questions, I did write directly to Ethan, I received a reply that he would get get back to myself and never did. The point on his venture was to call to the attention that the JD's (along with others) in this country have been dubbed in believing that Law School yields 150K offers per graduate. We all know that this is not true. However, as he has come to learn, others too have gotten involved and have addressed these points (behind the scenes) but with no media mention or exposure. The opportunity now present..... through his venture is that the solutions that have been sought out coupled with his current protest would force the ABA and Law Council (LSAC) to respond with the Question to be Asked 'Why have they failed to implement the steps necessary that the DOJ and Attorney General has in its presence and acknowledges as the solution for the issues involving law school ?? The Law School selection process has been a thorn within the side of Higher Ed for nearly 50 years. And his issue also touches on challenges that the media does not want to approach.... In short, he accomplished what he set out to achieve, which we all admire. Now lets bring the solutions to the table for discussion. His sacrifice now has meaning. So Again I ask, what is he waiting for ?? He can schedule any interview that he so chooses, which now brings just not the issues but the solutions to the table. Their are many Ex-lawyers and law grads that are now circuit tour experts making big monies and their sole purpose is to bring solutions to the table through the writings of others. And as a writer, articles require verification on expertise.... In answer to your questions, I did write directly to Ethan, I received a reply that he would get get back to myself and never did. The point on his venture was to call to the attention that the JD’s (along with others) in this country have been dubbed in believing that Law School yields 150K offers per graduate.

We all know that this is not true. However, as he has come to learn, others too have gotten involved and have addressed these points (behind the scenes) but with no media mention or exposure.

The opportunity now present….. through his venture is that the solutions that have been sought out coupled with his current protest would force the ABA and Law Council (LSAC) to respond with the Question to be Asked ‘Why have they failed to implement the steps necessary that the DOJ and Attorney General has in its presence and acknowledges as the solution for the issues involving law school ??

The Law School selection process has been a thorn within the side of Higher Ed for nearly 50 years. And his issue also touches on challenges that the media does not want to approach….

In short, he accomplished what he set out to achieve, which we all admire. Now lets bring the solutions to the table for discussion. His sacrifice now has meaning.

So Again I ask, what is he waiting for ?? He can schedule any interview that he so chooses, which now brings just not the issues but the solutions to the table.

Their are many Ex-lawyers and law grads that are now circuit tour experts making big monies and their sole purpose is to bring solutions to the table through the writings of others.

And as a writer, articles require verification on expertise….

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Comment on MSNBC Article Highlights Ethan Haines’ Hunger Strike by Michelle http://unemployedjd.com/2010/08/17/msnbc-article-highlights-ethan-haines-hunger-strike/comment-page-1/#comment-202 Michelle Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:17:16 +0000 http://unemployedjd.com/?p=417#comment-202 Going on a hunger strike is useless. Your going to starve yourself to prove what exactly? That the world is unfair? You sound more like a spoiled brat. If you were smart enough to get into law school in the first place, you should think outside the box to get a job...but with all this whining you might have just shot that possibility. Good luck with whatever it is you're trying to do Going on a hunger strike is useless. Your going to starve yourself to prove what exactly? That the world is unfair? You sound more like a spoiled brat. If you were smart enough to get into law school in the first place, you should think outside the box to get a job…but with all this whining you might have just shot that possibility.
Good luck with whatever it is you’re trying to do

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Comment on MSNBC Article Highlights Ethan Haines’ Hunger Strike by Sovereign Defaulting on Debt http://unemployedjd.com/2010/08/17/msnbc-article-highlights-ethan-haines-hunger-strike/comment-page-1/#comment-193 Sovereign Defaulting on Debt Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:31:33 +0000 http://unemployedjd.com/?p=417#comment-193 @ John Silvi: I think you're on the right side of the issue (Ethan's side), but how do you do a movie about a guy who can't get a job and who, therefore, sits at home starving himself in protest? I'm also not sure that he's required to solve the problem. In fact, I'm pretty sure that the point of a hunger strike is to draw attention to a problem in order to motivate people to solve it, not to provide some kind of policy prescription. Further, why you didn't just write to Ethan directly to pose the questions you pose directly to him? You seem to have had contact with him in the past, or at least you claim to have, and, for the life of me, I can't figure out why you posted anything that you did, unless it was simply just to wrap your lips around the cornet you jammed up your own ***. Last, no one cares that you're a consultant to the DOJ and US Attorney General, or that you wrote a book, or that you are the president of anything. I pilot a black helicopter when I sleep and I'm a goddamn riot when I'm awake, but you don't see me putting that at the end of my internet blog comments, now do you. @ John Silvi: I think you’re on the right side of the issue (Ethan’s side), but how do you do a movie about a guy who can’t get a job and who, therefore, sits at home starving himself in protest? I’m also not sure that he’s required to solve the problem. In fact, I’m pretty sure that the point of a hunger strike is to draw attention to a problem in order to motivate people to solve it, not to provide some kind of policy prescription. Further, why you didn’t just write to Ethan directly to pose the questions you pose directly to him? You seem to have had contact with him in the past, or at least you claim to have, and, for the life of me, I can’t figure out why you posted anything that you did, unless it was simply just to wrap your lips around the cornet you jammed up your own ***. Last, no one cares that you’re a consultant to the DOJ and US Attorney General, or that you wrote a book, or that you are the president of anything. I pilot a black helicopter when I sleep and I’m a goddamn riot when I’m awake, but you don’t see me putting that at the end of my internet blog comments, now do you.

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Comment on Identity of Law School “Scamblogger” Revealed by Ethan Haines http://unemployedjd.com/2010/08/16/identity-of-law-school-scamblogger-revealed/comment-page-1/#comment-190 Ethan Haines Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:01:55 +0000 http://unemployedjd.com/?p=403#comment-190 Thank you for this comment, this was the perception I had after reading the article. Ethan Thank you for this comment, this was the perception I had after reading the article.

Ethan

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Comment on Hunger Strike by student loan : : MSNBC: “Ethan Haines Isn’t Just Fed Up…He’s Fed Out.” - Insurance Today http://unemployedjd.com/hungerstrike/comment-page-1/#comment-188 student loan : : MSNBC: “Ethan Haines Isn’t Just Fed Up…He’s Fed Out.” - Insurance Today Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:08:54 +0000 http://unemployedjd.com/#comment-188 [...] “Ethan Haines Isn’t Just Fed Up…He’s Fed Out.”Share Today is Day 13 of Ethan Haines’ hunger strike to compel law schools to cooperate with the Law School Transparency project, and the non-legal [...] [...] “Ethan Haines Isn’t Just Fed Up…He’s Fed Out.”Share Today is Day 13 of Ethan Haines’ hunger strike to compel law schools to cooperate with the Law School Transparency project, and the non-legal [...]

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Comment on Identity of Law School “Scamblogger” Revealed by unfrozenlawyer http://unemployedjd.com/2010/08/16/identity-of-law-school-scamblogger-revealed/comment-page-1/#comment-187 unfrozenlawyer Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:53:05 +0000 http://unemployedjd.com/?p=403#comment-187 FYI - Scott Bullock has been around for more than 3 years and his identity was "revealed" in a WSJ article written by Amir Efrati in September 2007. See below: http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB119040786780835602.html FYI – Scott Bullock has been around for more than 3 years and his identity was “revealed” in a WSJ article written by Amir Efrati in September 2007.

See below:
http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB119040786780835602.html

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